Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Spoilers. Seen it? Discuss it here.)

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  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,503
    My short take: I loved it. And there is a whole lot of movie in there to unpack. Some things are tonally different than some other Star Wars movies, but it worked for me, and I can also see why they are excited enough about Johnson to give him a trilogy to build.

    Looking forward to taking our eldest daughter to see it later this weekend.
  • Really good!
    When Luke showed up on Crayt looking different from how he looked on Ahch-To, I knew something was up. Trimmed hair and beard. Not as gray.
    The Canto Bight scenes were not for nothing.
  • I am going to get my one quibble out the way. It was a bit too long. Seemed like the climax should have occurred earlier but I guess the time was necessary to move along the narrative to the next film. Maybe cut out the casino scenes but I guess they didn't want everything centered on the transport.

    With that out the way. That was better than Force Awakens! Didn't think Snoke was get taken out but it makes sense. I enjoyed some of the deeper looks at war profiteering in this war. We got to see a near mutiny among the resistance. Never seen the elite in a Star Wars film so I guess the casino was necessary for that.

    I loved Rose just stunning deserters but seeing how many transports were getting taken out can you blame them now?

    Millenium Falcon always coming in at the right time.

    Can't wait to see this again. And I saw it on this monster. They make a big deal about it being the only EMAX screen in the state but I think they own the name.

    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/12/13/emagine-novi-is-home-to-michigans-only-super-emax-movie-screen/
  • MattMatt Posts: 3,968
    With VII the swan song for Han & this one for Luke, I wonder what IX would’ve done for Leia.
  • Listening to Rebel Force Radio podcast reaction show, I love the idea of about 10 years later for Episode IX. Ring theory with the 10 years between Episode I and Episode II.
  • MattMatt Posts: 3,968
    I didn’t realize how polarized fans are on this movie. It reminds me of the complaints to both Superman Returns & Man of Steel. For Returns, people complained it was nothing new. For Man of Steel, the complaints were because it wasn’t the old stuff.
  • fredzillafredzilla Posts: 2,063
    Thrilled at the Rey and Kylo Ren fighting in Snoke's throne room. I also liked that everyone kept calling him "Ben" throughout the film (which, btw, sounds a lot like "Ren").

    I also liked the addition of Rose. She offset Finn really well. The porgs are only slightly better than Jar Jar (probably because they didn't have any real speaking parts or weren't integral to the film).

    I knew something was up when I saw Luke all cleaned up and someone mentioned that there had to be another entrance into the cave because Luke was there. I loved the red visuals during his fight with Ren. Stunning. I wasn't quite sure if it was the end for him though, but when I saw the sun being covered by the clouds I understood.

    Overall I really enjoyed it. Not sure where it ranks just yet since it is so fresh, but it was a lot of fun and worth multiple viewings. I heard it was really humorous, and while I did chuckle a bit more than TFA, I expected some GtG kind of humor. Kinda glad it wasn't. I do agree with @matchkitJOHN about the length. It was too long. However, if they cut it off after Snoke's throne room, that would have been a crummy ending. So in that regard, I can forgive the added length.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,127
    This about sums it up for me(language warning):

  • fredzillafredzilla Posts: 2,063
    58 minutes for 10 reasons?!

    image
  • alienalalienal Posts: 467
    I enjoyed it except for the non-continuation of plotlines from the Episode 7. We never get to find out where Snoke came from? We didn't find out about Rey's parents? (I don't believe Kylo Ren/Ben Solo's explanation) Suddenly Phasma just shows up without any comment on what Han and Finn may have done to her in Ep. 7? Well, everything just seemed too convenient at times. Other than that, I liked it. :wink: I sort feel like Johnson painted JJ into a corner to see how he gets out of it. :smiley: And oh, by the way, it wasn't too long for me. In fact, for an almost 3 hour movie, I thought the time went by quite quickly. As for Episode IX (9): I'm curious as to whether the force kid will be involved. And how the heck did he get his hands on a Resistance ring? For that matter, how did Rose get one? Are they on sale somewhere? So, I guess we're going back to the casino planet. I'm also wondering whether both Snoke and Phasma survived. I mean, if Leia can do it...
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,127
    fredzilla said:

    58 minutes for 10 reasons?!

    image

    Well, it ended up being abnout 22 reasons lol
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    edited December 2017
    Minority opinion/Rant alert:

    Rian Johnson did not impress me much.

    The film certainly LOOKS great, it has the spectacle down pat, maybe even better than JJ Abrams did, but that’s about all it has going for it. Once you begin to notice or recall the underlying problems, you may realize that, despite it looking like Star Wars, it’s just not Star Wars.

    The Last Jedi was about the heroes failing. Poe gets a lot of good people killed by his heroic plan. Finn, Rose and Poe get a lot of good people killed by their heroic plan. Luke gets a lot of good people by failing his failing pupil. So if you view the Last Jedi as a movie about failure and overcoming it and enjoy how it subverts 'Good Guy Hero' movies of our past, then you may think it was fantastic. But if you went into Last Jedi expecting to see Luke being a hero at some point, something like the Luke we left at the end of Return of the Jedi, you likely left the movie really disappointed.

    Luke and Leia are truly side characters in this spectacle. It seemed like this movie held nothing but contempt for the Skywalker clan and long-time Star Wars fans. The green milk pumped from the breast of a sea monster dripping down Luke's beard was odious, but my real grievance is that the only coherent moral thesis advanced by any character is nihilism and relativism.

    When Rey confronts a place strong in the dark side (as Luke did in the tree on Dagobah), the dark side appears as just an infinite mirror, reflecting Rey back at herself. Unlike the dark side tree on Dagobah the infinite mirror pit is neither ominous nor disturbing. The dark tree revealed to Luke the danger of him becoming his father, in a memorable and jarring vision; the 'Hall of Infinite Mirrors' reveals precisely nothing about Rey. She makes no meaningful choices, gains no insights, and the entire event is pointless. There is nothing at all to indicate why this part of the island is dark, nor does that imputed quality affect the movie in the slightest. There is no reveal, so the entire thing is pointless. BUT, it did allow Disney to introduce us to three new types of aliens to stock the toy shelves with.

    And more problematic is that the movie fully embraces the notion that the Force itself is 'balance' (Luke says this over and over again when teaching Rey). It's not split between Light and Dark, but balance. This movie even ruined the phrase “May the Force be with you” as a positive blessing of sorts. Now we learn that it’s totally neutral and amoral. And the idea that Luke, who once was willing to risk everything because he knew he wanted to try to persuade the Lord of the Sith, Darth Vader, back to the good side, would now give up in fear when faced with Kylo Ren? Not the Luke I remember. Every character is blatantly written to serve a greater corporate purpose which seems to be that Disney needs to hit ‘reset’ on the Star Wars universe and open it up to endless expansion. I get that Star Wars had to outgrow its origins eventually, but the characters and spirit of the original trilogy (and even the prequels) deserved a softer touch than this heavy-handed reset that tries way too hard to ‘modernize’ the themes and insert current political themes, while sacrificing all the magic of the saga.

    The mutiny subplot was superfluous, the casino planet was pointless (other than creating a new video game), wealth disparity at the horse tracks was too on the nose, everything about Leia dying/not dying and her Supergirl impression was really silly. Almost everything that happened on the planet with Luke is unnecessary. He taught Rey three very useless lessons but she leaves him saying "If you’re not going to actually teach me anything I’ll go find another teacher." Then when Luke threatens to burn down the Jedi tree house he again fails, then Yoda shows up out of nowhere and burns it down because why? Cause he's crazy that's why! Yoda's look was altered JUST ENOUGHT that new toys will also be required. Phasma again went out like a punk, Emo Vader decided not to shoot his mommy, but then his wing men do it anyway...

    So biggest issues? Super-Leia, alien tit milking, murderous, cowardly Luke, C3P0 & R2 and Chewie are reduced to afterthoughts just to please old fans. The entire mythos is altered in disrespectful ways. And then there were the jokes, again with the jokes.

    Don't get me wrong, the film may be entertaining because of its spectacle, but I have a feeling that its spectacle hides a nihilism streak that won't be kind to this film after repeated viewings. I think that's why the audience score is about 40 points behind the critics on this installment - which is far more disparity than the 'prequels'

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    Mr_Cosmic said:

    This about sums it up for me(language warning):




    List of reasons featured in video:

    1. The death of Luke
    2. Luke’s legacy & behavior
    3. The death of Snoke
    4. Finn & Rose’s subplot
    5. Rey’s parents are nobody
    6. Death & return of Leia
    7. Death of Phasma
    8. Humor & tone issues
    9. Dropped Force Awakens subplots
    10. Plot holes
    11. First Order fleet chases instead of destroys
    12. Vice Admiral Holdo sucks
    13. A single X-Wing can destroy a Dreadnought
    14. Why didnt Kylo notice Luke projection
    15. Knights of Ren dropped
    16. Kylo Ren & Vader relationship dropped
    17. Rey's perfect saber techniques with no training
    18. Snoke doesnt know his ship can track the enemy?
    19. Yoda looks weird! (and can control lighting?)
    20. Rey happens to be at correct spot to save everyone and lifts all rocks with no training.
    21. Why was Finn hurt if it has no ramifications?
    22. Rose falling in love with Finn was stupid!


    They're not wrong.
  • MattMatt Posts: 3,968

    Mr_Cosmic said:

    This about sums it up for me(language warning):




    List of reasons featured in video:

    1. The death of Luke
    2. Luke’s legacy & behavior
    3. The death of Snoke
    4. Finn & Rose’s subplot
    5. Rey’s parents are nobody
    6. Death & return of Leia
    7. Death of Phasma
    8. Humor & tone issues
    9. Dropped Force Awakens subplots
    10. Plot holes
    11. First Order fleet chases instead of destroys
    12. Vice Admiral Holdo sucks
    13. A single X-Wing can destroy a Dreadnought
    14. Why didnt Kylo notice Luke projection
    15. Knights of Ren dropped
    16. Kylo Ren & Vader relationship dropped
    17. Rey's perfect saber techniques with no training
    18. Snoke doesnt know his ship can track the enemy?
    19. Yoda looks weird! (and can control lighting?)
    20. Rey happens to be at correct spot to save everyone and lifts all rocks with no training.
    21. Why was Finn hurt if it has no ramifications?
    22. Rose falling in love with Finn was stupid!


    They're not wrong.
    Maybe the presentation will change my mind, but Luke’s death doesn’t anger me. I expected it during this trilogy.

    I mentioned to Shane that I didn’t think these movies were really outlined (let alone initial drafts) before TFA was released. I’m not sure if it’s bullshit, but I recall Lucas mentioning he at least had the story written down for all 3 movies when he started A New Hope. Just shelving the other 2 in case he was ever able to make them.

    I know Disney passed on his suggestions for 7-9, but I’m really curious what they are. I’m curious if Hamill knows and would’ve preferred that instead of what he got.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,127
    Matt said:

    Mr_Cosmic said:

    This about sums it up for me(language warning):




    List of reasons featured in video:

    1. The death of Luke
    2. Luke’s legacy & behavior
    3. The death of Snoke
    4. Finn & Rose’s subplot
    5. Rey’s parents are nobody
    6. Death & return of Leia
    7. Death of Phasma
    8. Humor & tone issues
    9. Dropped Force Awakens subplots
    10. Plot holes
    11. First Order fleet chases instead of destroys
    12. Vice Admiral Holdo sucks
    13. A single X-Wing can destroy a Dreadnought
    14. Why didnt Kylo notice Luke projection
    15. Knights of Ren dropped
    16. Kylo Ren & Vader relationship dropped
    17. Rey's perfect saber techniques with no training
    18. Snoke doesnt know his ship can track the enemy?
    19. Yoda looks weird! (and can control lighting?)
    20. Rey happens to be at correct spot to save everyone and lifts all rocks with no training.
    21. Why was Finn hurt if it has no ramifications?
    22. Rose falling in love with Finn was stupid!


    They're not wrong.
    Maybe the presentation will change my mind, but Luke’s death doesn’t anger me. I expected it during this trilogy.

    I mentioned to Shane that I didn’t think these movies were really outlined (let alone initial drafts) before TFA was released. I’m not sure if it’s bullshit, but I recall Lucas mentioning he at least had the story written down for all 3 movies when he started A New Hope. Just shelving the other 2 in case he was ever able to make them.

    I know Disney passed on his suggestions for 7-9, but I’m really curious what they are. I’m curious if Hamill knows and would’ve preferred that instead of what he got.
    i expected Luke to die as well...just not from exhaustion(or whatever that was).
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    edited January 4
    No one expected this cringeworthy scene. A new low-point for the saga. But if you want a director who just basically said "F__K IT!" and directed his movie, then you may love it.
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,678
    Jar Jar didn't fart in the prequels. Some random animal did.

    Guess we should also ignore Tauntaun guts and belching Sarlaacs while we're at it. There's always been a random moment of "eww gross" to these movies.

    Also there's probably no milkmen on that planet. :smiley:



  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,678
    Apparently some people are so incensed that this movie changed the story and tone of the series so much they've started a petition to have it removed from canon so those events never happened.

    Let that sink in for a moment. :smiley:
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,678
    Matt said:

    With VII the swan song for Han & this one for Luke, I wonder what IX would’ve done for Leia.

    Leia gets to live to a ripe old age and dies the symbol of everything the rebellion stands for.

    IX belongs to Chewbacca. He's gonna take the Falcon out in a final blaze of glory. And THAT will be the episode that finally gets me to shed a tear.

    Good dog.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    edited December 2017
    Torchsong said:

    Jar Jar didn't fart in the prequels. Some random animal did.

    Guess we should also ignore Tauntaun guts and belching Sarlaacs while we're at it. There's always been a random moment of "eww gross" to these movies.

    Also there's probably no milkmen on that planet. :smiley:

    Petitions are silly, but there have also been petitions to make Captain America gay, to oust CB Cebulski from Marvel, and for Lucas to release the original trilogy on Blu-Ray without the special edition edits. I don't agree with every petition, even if I think they have a point. I can just scream at the clouds or tell my friends that something was terrible, imo.

    Nice catch of that tweet. I'm sure learning that it was a different cow creature that farted in Jar Jar Binks' face will make that scene immensely less cringworthy and will surely also lessen any repulsion at seeing how Luke sustains himself on an island planet without learning to fish or eat vegetation. Good thing he had the fore-thought to carry along a baby bottle with him for regular milking time!

    And speaking of necessary bodily functions, do you think we should learn how Rey dealt with her menstrual cycle on a desert planet or get a glimpse at Chewie taking a dump on the Falcon? Potentially both crucial details to help fill those gaping plot holes.

    Better to spend time on that than giving the audience a single line of dialogue that delivered some backstory or origin details regarding Snoke.
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,678


    Nice catch of that tweet. I'm sure learning that it was a different cow creature that farted in Jar Jar Binks' face will make that scene immensely less cringworthy and will surely also lessen any repulsion at seeing how Luke sustains himself on an island planet without learning to fish or eat vegetation. Good thing he had the fore-thought to carry along a baby bottle with him for regular milking time!

    Apparently we weren't paying attention when Luke was carrying the giant fish on his back, were we?

  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    edited December 2017
    Sure, so why is he sucking alien tits? Why did we need it at all?

  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,678
    The honest answer? To gross Rey out.

    Look at the scene and look at where he's looking. At Rey. While the gross stuff dribbles into his beard. While he kneels in front of this gross cow-thingy. Here's the guy you were looking for, Rey. Jedi Master. Hero of the Rebellion. Luke Skywalker. No wait.. **LUKE SKYWALKER**

    Getting milk from a walrus-looking thing and not even allowing himself the dignity of wiping his mouth when it's in his beard.

    That's what's become of your "hero". Now go home.

    That's why we needed the scene.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    edited December 2017
    Torchsong said:


    That's why we needed the scene.

    I didn't need the scene.

    If you did, then I'm glad you got the Star Wars film that you needed, one that essentially shit all over the saga.

    But don't take my word for it.

    https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-list-of-some-of-the-times-the-last-jedi-told-the-olde-1821396631

    There are some gems in the comments:
    Leia surviving in the cold vacuum of space without any training in the Force versus the time that jedi masters Qui-Gon and Obi Wan needed scuba gear for a five minute swim to the Gungan city.
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,279
    edited December 2017
    I haven’t seen Last Jedi. Haven’t even seen Force Awakens yet. But here’s what it sounds like to me: Luke is to the second episode of the new trilogy what Yoda was to the second episode of the original trilogy. Luke/Rey go off to a remote planet looking for the last great Jedi master, only to find a gross loner who is trying to escape the conflict and be at peace with his surroundings. Yoda/Luke initially do not wish to train this young upstart, but are eventually convinced to do so. But the training is cut short because Luke/Rey are impetuous and impatient, and they run off to help their friends rather than stay and complete their training. Then Yoda/Luke die peacefully in their home.

    Do I have that about right?
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967

    I haven’t seen Last Jedi. Haven’t even seen Force Awakens yet. But here’s what it sounds like to me: Luke is to the second episode of the new trilogy what Yoda was to the second episode of the original trilogy. Luke/Rey go off to a remote planet looking for the last great Jedi master, only to find a gross loner who is trying to escape the conflict and be at peace with his surroundings. Yoda/Luke initially do not wish to train this young upstart, but are eventually convinced to do so. But the training is cut short because Luke/Rey are impetuous and impatient, and they run off to help their friends rather than stay and complete their training. Then Yoda/Luke die peacefully in their home.

    Do I have that about right?

    #NailedIt

    But this episode included far more subversiveness to clean the slate for annual Disney Star Wars movies for the foreseeable future and with an ending that, unlike ESB, doesn't really make you curious about what's going to happen next for our failed heroes.
  • ...unlike ESB, doesn't really make you curious about what's going to happen next for our failed heroes.

    Well, obviously the next film will start with our heroes in disguise trying to carry off a daring rescue of some sort. In the process, a minor but beloved villain will come to a gruesome end. Then the Rebellion/Resistance will find out a new, bigger Death Star is being built, and they’ll have to go take it out. Someone will yell, “It's a trap!”, and then a big battle will ensue. All will seem lost, but then a race of creatures who by all appearances seem completely useless will help save the day.

    Or something like that.
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