Doomsday Clock! What do you think so far? (SPOILERS)

Didn't see any threads already created for this, and since it's a 12-part event, I thought I'd open one up.

I thought issue #1 was quite intriguing, and I'm excited to see where this is going. But this chapter also felt decompressed. I hope future ones read tighter.

I have zero hypotheses for who this new Rorschach is. Has there been anything during these Rebirth months to give anyone a clue? Maybe it's someone we've never met. Maybe we'll never(ish) even find out this one's identity. Hurm.

Johns' creation of these new characters Mime and Marionette is equally interesting. Like Moore's original main characters, these two are patterned after Charlton Comics ones. (While DC acquired Charlton's in 1983, it didn't let Moore use them for Watchmen, asking him to create his own analogues instead.) The weird thing is, Mime's and Marionette's obscure antecedents - Charlton's Punch and Jewelee - were themselves recently used in Tom King's Batman title. That can't be coincidence. What a multiversal amuse-bouche! I just wonder what it is about Marionette - and not Mime - which Adrian Veidt feels is so important for allowing him to find Dr. Manhattan.

And while I liked the Superman stuff to close the issue, his final line about never having had a nightmare before seemed pushing it lol. Dramatic, yeah. But come on. Clark has nightmares.

What did you think of Doomsday Clock #1?
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Comments

  • BrackBrack Posts: 568

    What did you think of Doomsday Clock #1?

    It was bad. And worse, it was boring.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    Thanks for the heads-up @Brack

    I enjoyed the first issue, though admittedly it poses far more questions than it answered. The art was great, and like @BionicDave - I found it intriguing. I am sticking it out.
  • dubbat138dubbat138 Posts: 3,089
    I enjoyed it and normally do not like John's writing.
  • mphilmphil Posts: 246
    I liked it as well. I didn't spoil anything about this book, so I knew nothing going in. I sort of expected it to be a continuation of the Rebirth one-shot. I wasn't expecting it to take place in the Watchmen universe, at all. So now I'm really not sure what to think. If it's going to be a sequel to Watchmen that's great! But in that case I would prefer it to stay in that world, but it doesn't seem like it will?

    Nevertheless, what I saw I really liked. Bringing Rorschach as a new character makes total sense. Several of the heroes in Watchmen are passed down; why not Rorschach too?

    I liked the issue enough to start rereading Watchmen.
  • I have zero hypotheses for who this new Rorschach is.

    I wonder if he's not an android, or something, perhaps? At one point, he took his glove off as proof that he wasn't Rorschach and, whoever it was (can't remember if it was Mime or Marionette) immediately accepted that it wasn't him. Didn't really get that.

  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967

    I have zero hypotheses for who this new Rorschach is.

    I wonder if he's not an android, or something, perhaps? At one point, he took his glove off as proof that he wasn't Rorschach and, whoever it was (can't remember if it was Mime or Marionette) immediately accepted that it wasn't him. Didn't really get that.

    When he took off his glove, it revealed his black skin, confirming he's not Kovachs but someone else.
  • mphilmphil Posts: 246
    My first thought was that it was Rorschach's doctor. But the idea that it might be someone from the DCU didn't occur to me at all, I like that possibility.
  • BrackBrack Posts: 568

    I have zero hypotheses for who this new Rorschach is.

    Prevailing theories are Bernie or Martian Manhunter.

    Based on the fact that Bernie was a black character in Watchmen, and its the sort of cutesy continuity bow that Johns can't resist tying.

    For J'onn, it's because he's been out of sight for a while and can change shape.

    But that's lazy theorising - why can't Rorschach not be both? Maybe Bernie in the original series was Martian Manhunter all along!

    Sent back in time to undermine Watchmen while Dr Manhattan convinces Mike Carlin to kill Superman and bring him back with long hair. TRULY HISTORY'S GREATEST CRIME.
  • mphilmphil Posts: 246
    Is Bernie the kid that reads the comic by the newstand?
  • mphil said:

    Is Bernie the kid that reads the comic by the newstand?

    Indeed.
  • mwhitt80mwhitt80 Posts: 3,310
    Brack said:

    I have zero hypotheses for who this new Rorschach is.


    Sent back in time to undermine Watchmen while Dr Manhattan convinces Mike Carlin to kill Superman and bring him back with long hair. TRULY HISTORY'S GREATEST CRIME.
    I read this and thought John's put Mike Carlin in comic and people complain about Morrison..
    image
  • mphil said:

    Is Bernie the kid that reads the comic by the newstand?

    Indeed.
    Bernie/Bernard is the name of both the kid reading the Black Freighter and the newstand owner/runner. But I realize we're talking about Rorschach and the black skin color.
  • I've never seen Moore mention it anywhere, but does anyone know if Bernard and Bernie were named after Bernard Krigstein? I've always assumed so. Krigstein did work for EC’s Piracy series, and the storytelling of the Black Freighter is rather Krigstein-esque.
  • When he took off his glove, it revealed his black skin, confirming he's not Kovachs but someone else.

    Ah, thanks. Went back and looked and hadn't realized that was supposed to be black skin.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,153
    I'm one of those people who doesn't think Watchmen is as great as most people do...but I thought this was really good. The art, Rorschach's inner monologue..the whole presentation..made the issue feel like it fits right in with the original series.

    I think Rorschach is Bernie too. If it is true then it will be interesting to see how he went from reading Pirate comics to believing he is Rorschach.



  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    Anyone else believe that this story being set in November 1992 has anything to do with Doomsday and Superman’s fight? Stay tuned.
  • BrackBrack Posts: 568

    Anyone else believe that this story being set in November 1992 has anything to do with Doomsday and Superman’s fight? Stay tuned.

    Yes, hence my sarcasm earlier.
  • DARDAR Posts: 855
    Mr_Cosmic said:

    I'm one of those people who doesn't think Watchmen is as great as most people do...but I thought this was really good. The art, Rorschach's inner monologue..the whole presentation..made the issue feel like it fits right in with the original series.

    I think Rorschach is Bernie too. If it is true then it will be interesting to see how he went from reading Pirate comics to believing he is Rorschach.



    I'm more in the I respect Watchmen more that I actually like it camp myself
  • TravisTravis Posts: 26
    I didn't start seriously reading comics until I started listening to CGS in 2005, but I wasn't all that impressed with Watchmen. It was kinda of like that's it? That's what everyone thinks is the greatest comic of all time. But it's still better than The Dark Knight Returns which I hated. I'm sure if I was reading them as they came out I would have a very different view point.
  • Travis said:

    I didn't start seriously reading comics until I started listening to CGS in 2005, but I wasn't all that impressed with Watchmen. It was kinda of like that's it? That's what everyone thinks is the greatest comic of all time. But it's still better than The Dark Knight Returns which I hated. I'm sure if I was reading them as they came out I would have a very different view point.

    Yeah, you kind of had to be there. I didn't read it as it came out, because I was at a point where I wasn't really reading comics. When I got back into comics a couple of years later, it was one of the first things I read, and it was definitely an eye-opener.

    For newer readers, I can certainly see why the story doesn’t seem like all that big a deal. And for me in 2017, thirty years after the fact, Watchmen isn’t even the best thing Moore has written (that would be From Hell), much less the greatest comic of all time. But the storytelling is still as impressive as ever. The structures, and patterns, and mirroring, etc., of the story are still amazing even by today’s standards. On some levels it did for comics what Citizen Kane did for film.

    I read TDKR around the same time I read Watchmen, and it’s never done much for me. Again, there are some storytelling aspects I can get behind, though not to the level of Watchmen.
  • I loved, loved, loved both Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns. I've got them on my Mt. Rushmore of comics, along with Kingdom Come and ... er, some other comic that I can't think of at the moment.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    I loved TDKR also. It's what sparked my late teens return to an interest in comics.

    image
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,153
    edited December 2017
    DAR said:

    Mr_Cosmic said:

    I'm one of those people who doesn't think Watchmen is as great as most people do...but I thought this was really good. The art, Rorschach's inner monologue..the whole presentation..made the issue feel like it fits right in with the original series.

    I think Rorschach is Bernie too. If it is true then it will be interesting to see how he went from reading Pirate comics to believing he is Rorschach.



    I'm more in the I respect Watchmen more that I actually like it camp myself
    That's where I'm at as well. I certainly respect it for the impact it had on comics but I found it underwhelming as a read.

    Eric brought up From Hell as his favorite Alan Moore work. For me it's Swamp Thing. In fact I really enjoy most of his DCU work over his creator owned(and Watchmen) work.
  • Mr_Cosmic said:

    Eric brought up From Hell as his favorite Alan Moore work.

    While I think From Hell is his best work, my favorite is actually the “Jack B. Quick” feature in Tomorrow Stories.
  • BionicDaveBionicDave Posts: 317
    edited December 2017
    I worship Moore, though I admit I haven't read his modern stuff :( I'm a lazy sob.

    For me, his four works of Watchmen, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, V for Vendetta, and Superman (Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?) are so awesome that I get shivers merely typing those titles out. And now I'm gonna reread some over my holiday break lol. Life's too short not to.

    As for Watchmen specifically, I do agree that it may have more impact if you're of a certain age (which I am) (pass the prune juice) and if you had read it back in the day. It blew my 16 year-old mind. As for Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, that also rocked my world, even though I've always had a problem with Miller's anti-Superman take. But the mastery of art and writing in TDKR was so damn seductive to me that it overwhelmed my hero allegiance. That's one mark of a fantastic artist, I guess: he/she can deride something you love and still make you love how it's done.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,153

    Mr_Cosmic said:

    Eric brought up From Hell as his favorite Alan Moore work.

    While I think From Hell is his best work, my favorite is actually the “Jack B. Quick” feature in Tomorrow Stories.
    An important distinction - the best isn't always a person's favorite.
  • PaulPaul Posts: 166
    Mr_Cosmic said:

    I think Rorschach is Bernie too. If it is true then it will be interesting to see how he went from reading Pirate comics to believing he is Rorschach.

    I thought that too, but his fate in Watchmen now has me thinking otherwise.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,153
    Paul said:

    Mr_Cosmic said:

    I think Rorschach is Bernie too. If it is true then it will be interesting to see how he went from reading Pirate comics to believing he is Rorschach.

    I thought that too, but his fate in Watchmen now has me thinking otherwise.
    I guess I forgot about that. I've only read Warchmen once...I saw the black hand and immediately thought "the kid reading the comic!"
  • Paul said:

    I thought that too, but his fate in Watchmen now has me thinking otherwise.

    I never let little details like that stop me from contemplating a character's possible role in a future story. I mean, it's comic books :joy:
  • mphilmphil Posts: 246
    I just finished rereading Watchmen. I think Malcolm Long is the new Rorschach.

    First, we don't know that he died. In the final panels before the explosion we see a character that might be him, with Gloria, but are we for sure it's him? In the previous panels he was wearing a helmet and he's not in this one. Even if we assume it was him, we don't see his dead body in the next issue which shows bodies everywhere.

    Additionally we *do* see Bernie die with the newstand owner.

    More importantly though, there's nothing from the book that would suggest Bernie would become an adventurer. His character wasn't very motivated to do good, he just reread the comic trying to figure out what it meant.

    But Malcolm Long because obsessed with Rorschach and at the end of the book had had somewhat of a epiphany and decided to help others (we see him heading towards a fight to break it up).
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