Wonder Woman (spoilers)-- Seen it? Discuss it here.

«13

Comments

  • MattMatt Posts: 3,813
    Maybe it'll look differently when I see it on screen, but it really seems to be aping CA: First Avenger. There's a "super soldier/warrior", a government agent, Steve seems to perish in a plane carrying a massive bomb, a female love interest left to live on without her love, a villain who wears a disguise...

    I'm hoping this movie is really good, but the more I see/read, the more it seems to be an elephant in the room about its influence.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,481
    Oh it's definitely inspired by Captain America: The First Avenger, but with a LOT less America. I don't think they even go to America, in spite of Chris Pine's character's background.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,303
    Cap 1 being my favorite Marvel movie, the minor similarities bothered me not a whit.

    I enjoyed the ever-loving, blue-eyed crap out of this.

    The move to The Great War was acknowledged to have been made in order to lessen the similarity, and was an inspired choice.

    So far, I've yet to see anyone gripe about it "aping" Lord of the Rings with Diana's breaching of No Man's Land. Her just climbing up and doing so, rather than declaring "I am no man!" helped. The payoff of finally revealing the costume was magnificent. And the ensuing set piece through the destruction of the steeple, is my favorite superhero action sequence since the freighter attack in Cap 2.

    I was also pleased with the evisceration of my second-most-hated movie cliché: beauty disguised by glasses.
  • mwhitt80mwhitt80 Posts: 2,962
    WetRats said:


    So far, I've yet to see anyone gripe about it "aping" Lord of the Rings with Diana's breaching of No Man's Land. Her just climbing up and doing so, rather than declaring "I am no man!" helped. .

    Considering Tolkien's inspiration (if one can call that Nightmare inspiration) came from his time during WW1, I would think it should.
  • MattMatt Posts: 3,813
    edited June 3
    WetRats said:

    Cap 1 being my favorite Marvel movie, the minor similarities bothered me not a whit.

    I enjoyed the ever-loving, blue-eyed crap out of this.

    The move to The Great War was acknowledged to have been made in order to lessen the similarity, and was an inspired choice.

    So far, I've yet to see anyone gripe about it "aping" Lord of the Rings with Diana's breaching of No Man's Land. Her just climbing up and doing so, rather than declaring "I am no man!" helped. The payoff of finally revealing the costume was magnificent. And the ensuing set piece through the destruction of the steeple, is my favorite superhero action sequence since the freighter attack in Cap 2.

    I was also pleased with the evisceration of my second-most-hated movie cliché: beauty disguised by glasses.

    You would be correct, in all the articles I've read, none have mentioned a Lord of the Rings comparison. I've only read 3 reflecting Captain America:FA comparison.

    The move to the Great War would easily make sense to distance itself from First Avenger, but still use its coattails. Like Suicide Squad did with GotG (though hopefully WW is an actual huge success).

    I'm glad they used the template (also Donner's Superman; especially the alley homage scene). I think using things like the present-day bookends, the Howling Commando-type crew, Captain Trevor's fate were missteps in the story.
  • RickMRickM Posts: 407
    It's not perfect but it's very good. Gal Gadot is gorgeous and also a fine actress, perfect for the role. Her Diana is aggressive, naive about the muggle world, virtuous, angry, fiesty, and she's believable in all of it. Some of the scenes went on a beat too long but all in all it was a DC movie that didn't beat you over the head with its somberness. Thank goodness for that.
  • spidspid Posts: 196
    edited June 5
    I thought the movie was good. I thought the end fighting was a misstep. I would have preferred they have let Ares live, but then the ending would exactly Captain America:First Avenger. The two movies have a lot in common in terms with how they frame Cap and Wonder Woman in their respective worlds. They are beacon of hope and inspiration who got the start in one of mankind's worst moments. Both films have weak third acts, but i think Wonder Woman trumps Cap by having her fight the Germans. It adds weight to film by grounded it in reality while Cap went campy by making him only fight Hydra.

    Overall the film is good but there are some odd pacing moments that could have been better. There were also a lot of unnecessary closeups of Gal Gadot's face. It pulled me out of the film each time they did it. It reminded of the poses in Amazing Spiderman which lingered on to long.
  • CaptShazamCaptShazam Posts: 1,115
    Loved it. I think they hit all the points they needed while telling a good story with action.

    Going forward, do they just ignore WWII and anything that happened inbetween WWI and BVS? The sequel moves to a contemporary setting?

    A WWII set JSA movie led by Wonder Woman may be asking too much but I can dream
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,595
    edited June 5
    I think it sets unreasonable expectations for people...

    ...they're going to expect all DC movies to be this flipping awesome now! :smiley:
  • TravisTravis Posts: 19
    edited June 5
    I really liked it. But the ending was basically the same as Man of Steel, Batman V Superman and Suicide Squad. Big battle in the dark with lots of flames, which everyone hated then but love now.

    I still had a great time and my wife and 7 year old daughter loved it.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,303
    I bet the next Justice League trailer will be about 80% Wonder Woman.
  • CageNarleighCageNarleigh Posts: 666
    For a long while I was hoping they'd change it to be in WWII instead of WWI, if only because of potential cameos of other characters like the BlackHawks and Sgt Rock, etc.

    But honestly, I was still looking for them in this one.

    I LOVED the movie though. Very inspiring. Now Marvel needs to invest HARD in Captain Marvel. It actually has something to LIVE UP TO instead of shooting to set the bar in the first place.
  • Loved the movie. I think it is a little too mature for my 9 year old daughter but when we do watch it together, I will cry a tear or two again.

    The trench scene was inspiring
  • batlawbatlaw Posts: 838
    Finally saw it last night. Pretty darn great. Best modern dceu movie yet. This is more like it. Any complaints I have are mostly just minor and personal preference issues.
    IMO this was easily one of the most difficult properties to film. Especially well and believably and to satisfy the many varied fans tastes. They did as good a job as I could hope. A huge feat for DC/WB and very unexpected from them. but pleased.
    Not the best movie or best comic book movie, but good and enjoyable and rewatchable. I was ok w the casting and still don't think gal is "all that", but there were shots, especially with her smiling where she was breathtaking and lit up the screen. Very pleased and hope they learn from its success.
  • DARDAR Posts: 684
    The film dropped only 44% at the box office this weekend.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

    That's one of the best drops for any superhero film. MOS, BvS and SS all dropped in the mid to high 60's. Even the Marvel films drop somewhere in the 50's. So this bodes for very well for a great run.
  • matchkitJOHNmatchkitJOHN Posts: 949
    Even though it reminded me of Cap's scene in First Avenger the Steve Trevor sacrifice scene was equally if not more powerful. Damn. He's not going to be frozen in a block of ice. Going to see again. 4 out of 5 freking swers!
  • MattMatt Posts: 3,813

    Even though it reminded me of Cap's scene in First Avenger the Steve Trevor sacrifice scene was equally if not more powerful. Damn. He's not going to be frozen in a block of ice. Going to see again. 4 out of 5 freking swers!

    Pine is signed for a couple more & even Diana's aunt is set to return in JL.
  • MattMatt Posts: 3,813
    DAR said:

    The film dropped only 44% at the box office this weekend.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

    That's one of the best drops for any superhero film. MOS, BvS and SS all dropped in the mid to high 60's. Even the Marvel films drop somewhere in the 50's. So this bodes for very well for a great run.

    I believe only a Batman Begins had a lower drop off.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,481
    Video production nerds (like me) will enjoy this:

  • DARDAR Posts: 684
    Matt said:


    DAR said:

    The film dropped only 44% at the box office this weekend.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

    That's one of the best drops for any superhero film. MOS, BvS and SS all dropped in the mid to high 60's. Even the Marvel films drop somewhere in the 50's. So this bodes for very well for a great run.

    I believe only a Batman Begins had a lower drop off.
    Correct
  • matchkitJOHNmatchkitJOHN Posts: 949
    Matt said:

    Even though it reminded me of Cap's scene in First Avenger the Steve Trevor sacrifice scene was equally if not more powerful. Damn. He's not going to be frozen in a block of ice. Going to see again. 4 out of 5 freking swers!

    Pine is signed for a couple more & even Diana's aunt is set to return in JL.
    Wait...what? Hmmm. The aunt could be flashback's and maybe Steve had a kid? I think they did that with Steve Trevor on the TV series.
  • MattMatt Posts: 3,813
    DAR said:

    Matt said:


    DAR said:

    The film dropped only 44% at the box office this weekend.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

    That's one of the best drops for any superhero film. MOS, BvS and SS all dropped in the mid to high 60's. Even the Marvel films drop somewhere in the 50's. So this bodes for very well for a great run.

    I believe only a Batman Begins had a lower drop off.
    Correct
    DAR said:

    Matt said:


    DAR said:

    The film dropped only 44% at the box office this weekend.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

    That's one of the best drops for any superhero film. MOS, BvS and SS all dropped in the mid to high 60's. Even the Marvel films drop somewhere in the 50's. So this bodes for very well for a great run.

    I believe only a Batman Begins had a lower drop off.
    Correct
    I stand corrected, Spider-man had a 37.8% drop, making it the lowest drop. Batman Begins follows after that, then Wonder Woman.

    If 2008 is considered the start of the modern era of comic book movies, then Wonder Woman IS the lowest drop.
  • FlagwaverFlagwaver Posts: 110

    Matt said:

    Even though it reminded me of Cap's scene in First Avenger the Steve Trevor sacrifice scene was equally if not more powerful. Damn. He's not going to be frozen in a block of ice. Going to see again. 4 out of 5 freking swers!

    Pine is signed for a couple more & even Diana's aunt is set to return in JL.
    Wait...what? Hmmm. The aunt could be flashback's and maybe Steve had a kid? I think they did that with Steve Trevor on the TV series.
    On the show, Diana worked with Major Steve Trevor during WWII and when the show switched to the present day ('70s) she worked with his son Colonel Steve Trevor at the IADC.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,481

    I LOVED the movie though. Very inspiring. Now Marvel needs to invest HARD in Captain Marvel. It actually has something to LIVE UP TO instead of shooting to set the bar in the first place.

    Marvel will not be able to live up to Wonder Woman. She is part of DC's trinity of legacy characters. I've seen her image on everything from lunch boxes to Saturday morning cartoons since I was of an age to remember. Add to that the extremely popular Lynda Carter series, and her being a feminist icon for decades. The bar for female super hero movies has been set beyond reach with his exceptional movie. And while Marvel has already featured all of their biggest characters to varying degrees of success , for DC, a WW film has been embarrassingly long overdue.

    Besides, Captain Marvel is barely a blip on the radar globally and will be a far more difficult sell. Her character isn't nearly as universally known as Diana Prince. I'm not saying they can't do a good story with Carol Danvers, nor am I saying they shouldn't bother, but it will be a miracle if it is able to put up even Doctor Strange or Ant-Man BO numbers. She may have a more impressive power set than Diana, but Carol doesn't have same legendary icon status. As far as I'm concerned, this was the last big hit for solo character films for the DCEU, and frankly Marvel doesn't have anything beyond Black Panther that could do as big of numbers that isn't a sequel. For that matter, I don't even expect Ant-Man & The Wasp or Spider-Man Homecoming to do bigger box office. Avengers and Justice League are a different matter.

    That said, Captain Marvel can potentially be a great story and I hope Marvel continues to bring their A-game with her debut, but Wonder Woman will not be matched overall by any other female hero movie - in my estimation. I'd be happy to hear of any other female superhero character film properties that you guys think could pull his off though, and I hope there are many more on the horizon, if for nothing else, to brighten up the hearts of girls worldwide to be better people and live up to their full potential. My daughter and I both enjoyed it far more than we expected to.

    Thank you Patty Jenkins, DC/WB, and Gail Gadot.
  • MattMatt Posts: 3,813

    I LOVED the movie though. Very inspiring. Now Marvel needs to invest HARD in Captain Marvel. It actually has something to LIVE UP TO instead of shooting to set the bar in the first place.

    Marvel will not be able to live up to Wonder Woman. She is part of DC's trinity of legacy characters. I've seen her image on everything from lunch boxes to Saturday morning cartoons since I was of an age to remember. Add to that the extremely popular Lynda Carter series, and her being a feminist icon for decades. The bar for female super hero movies has been set beyond reach with his exceptional movie. And while Marvel has already featured all of their biggest characters to varying degrees of success , for DC, a WW film has been embarrassingly long overdue.

    Besides, Captain Marvel is barely a blip on the radar globally and will be a far more difficult sell. Her character isn't nearly as universally known as Diana Prince. I'm not saying they can't do a good story with Carol Danvers, nor am I saying they shouldn't bother, but it will be a miracle if it is able to put up even Doctor Strange or Ant-Man BO numbers. She may have a more impressive power set than Diana, but Carol doesn't have same legendary icon status. As far as I'm concerned, this was the last big hit for solo character films for the DCEU, and frankly Marvel doesn't have anything beyond Black Panther that could do as big of numbers that isn't a sequel. For that matter, I don't even expect Ant-Man & The Wasp or Spider-Man Homecoming to do bigger box office. Avengers and Justice League are a different matter.

    That said, Captain Marvel can potentially be a great story and I hope Marvel continues to bring their A-game with her debut, but Wonder Woman will not be matched overall by any other female hero movie - in my estimation. I'd be happy to hear of any other female superhero character film properties that you guys think could pull his off though, and I hope there are many more on the horizon, if for nothing else, to brighten up the hearts of girls worldwide to be better people and live up to their full potential. My daughter and I both enjoyed it far more than we expected to.

    Thank you Patty Jenkins, DC/WB, and Gail Gadot.
    I agree. Although I have had zero issues with Danvers, she has felt like the character Marvel is thrusting down our throats to be their iconic female character. I feel confident in stating she will never reach the same status as Diana. I attribute part of that to the name. If someone mentions "Captain Marvel," Danvers is the 3rd character I think of, behind Batson & Mar-Vell. She'd have a better chance at reaching a grander status as "Ms. Marvel."
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,481
    Matt said:


    I agree. Although I have had zero issues with Danvers, she has felt like the character Marvel is thrusting down our throats to be their iconic female character. I feel confident in stating she will never reach the same status as Diana. I attribute part of that to the name. If someone mentions "Captain Marvel," Danvers is the 3rd character I think of, behind Batson & Mar-Vell. She'd have a better chance at reaching a grander status as "Ms. Marvel."

    That's a great point about the name. Three long running characters have been known by that same moniker. And I think of her still as Ms. Marvel, but that name has been bestowed on a new character so there's no way Marvel would switch her back for the movies.

  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 4,719
    As far as the Captain Marvel name goes, to the vast majority of its potential audience, the name means absolutely nothing. It’s a blank slate. For better or worse (depending on how good the movie is), Carol Danvers will be who most people think of when they hear “Captain Marvel” going forward.

    As for her potential to be an icon, with very rare exceptions, icons aren't made overnight. They are built on a foundation of timing, resonance, and nostalgia. Who knows how people will think of the character 15, 20 years from now. No one ever thought the Guardians of the Galaxy would become a household name, but there they are. Though, of course, it remains to be seen if they will still be relevant in 20 years.

    This is Disney we're talking about. As long as Captain Marvel movies make money, Disney will keep making them. The more Captain Marvel movies they make, the better chance the character has at reaching icon status.
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,481
    Disclaimer: I am a fan of Carol Danvers and have been for years. I hope Captain Marvel does very well at the box office.
    image

    In 1960, Wonder Woman was selling around 200,000 issues a month. These numbers made her a lower-tier superhero book at DC in 1960, but a mid-range seller for the industry overall. In 1970, that number was around 172,000. And in 1987, it was close to 120,000. Today, no other female character comes close to her sales numbers (other than Harley Quinn, who falls just a bit short at 45k per month). Carol Danvers' Captain Marvel sells around 15-16K and has been around since 2012. And even though it isn't an "apples to apples" comparison like CM and WW, Guardians of the Galaxy comics only sell around 30k per issue today, so it will be a while before Star Lord or Gamora reach "icon status," if ever.

    Super-Friends cartoons, Underoos, Ben Cooper Halloween costumes, dolls, t-shirts, et al, have all contributed to Wonder Woman's universal recognition. Same for Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Captain America, and so on. Not so with Ms. Marvel / Binary / Warbird / Captain Marvel. I'm not saying you need to be selling the highest number of comics or have the most action figures, but in order to be considered a "legendary" or "icon status" character, you should see a large amount of ancillary appearances in the pop culture. That's not the case with Carol Danvers, although she certainly will get a bump when the movie is released.

    Even if the Captain Marvel movie is well-executed, profitable and warrants a sequel, Wonder Woman still has a 35-year head start and has been known world-wide for decades, so no, I stand by my belief Captain Marvel will never match the legendary status of Wonder Woman. DC has the winning hand with their trinity/legacy characters based on longevity alone. Sure, they could always screw it up, (like they've arguably been doing with Superman), but at the moment, they have the upper-hand in the female legendary icon column.
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 4,719
    I wouldn’t have called Iron Man an icon until very recently. The movies—or more specifically Robert Downey Jr.—has made the character an icon, or at least something very close to it.

    I'm just wondering why there has to be this “versus” angle. There’s plenty of room for both Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman to be popular figures. I don't know if Captain Marvel will ever become part of the popular zeitgeist or not, but does it really matter if she doesn’t? The character can still become a recognizable, money-making machine, and that’s all Disney really cares about anyway.
Sign In or Register to comment.